Wednesday, May 23
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Nils Pratley: Facebook IPO: overpriced 'flop' points to regulator shambles
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 7PM.
Rules that bar analysts from publishing during an IPO but let them talk are surely asking for trouble
Put yourself in the position of a US fund manager thinking of investing in Facebook at IPO stage. You think the stock is wildly overpriced but you know you've got to own a few of the damned things because the company will be a $100bn monster. You don't want to end up chasing the shares if there's a big "pop" in the first week of trading. So how many shares should you order?
Then, miracle of miracles, you get word that Scott Devitt, analyst at Morgan Stanley, the lead underwriter, has cut his short-term earnings forecasts for Facebook.
Well, you knew the company's prospectus update, on 9 May, was downbeat about selling ads on mobiles, but you didn't appreciate it was such a forecast shifter. You also know news of the reduced forecast will not be revealed to the world because the rules say it cannot be.
Your mind is made up: it's safe to be underweight; Facebook ain't going to fly on day one.
Does this illustrative tale explain last week's IPO flop? We await the verdict of various US regulators, but it may be extremely hard to prove that Morgan Stanley did anything wrong.
The IPO was an over-priced shambles, of course, but that is not the same thing as a conspiracy to fleece the public. If the rules say analysts at underwriting banks cannot publish research during an IPO period, but can talk to clients, then it is hard to see what Morgan Stanley should have done differently. The bank could have cut the price of Facebook shares, of course, but it seems to be claiming that it did at least contemplate that course.
"These revised views [of analysts at several underwriting banks who cut forecasts] were taken into account in the pricing of the IPO," says Morgan Stanley's statement.
We'll judge the credibility of that statement when more details emerge.
But, on the face of it, part of Joe Punter's anger should be directed at regulators for sanctioning a system that seems loaded against the little guy. Analysts on the inside should either be gagged completely or not at all. Imposing half a gag – a ban on published research but no limit on conversations with privileged clients – is asking for trouble.
Technology news, comment and analysis | guardian.co.uk:
Rory Carroll, Dominic Rushe: Facebook's IPO disaster shrugged off by Silicon Valley
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 7PM.
Social network's shares continue to fall, but executives in California's technology hub say tech boom will continue
Recriminations over Facebook's stock offering may be rattling Wall Street, but Silicon Valley considers the flotation a ruthless and successful smash-and-grab raid.
Entrepreneurs and executives in California's technology hub shrugged off controversy over Facebook's IPO and said the region's tech boom was solid and would continue.
But this is isn't a view shared outside the Valley, where experts warned that the debacle is likely to close the window for other tech firms considering share sales.
It is too early yet to judge whether Facebook will be a stock market success, but it has got off to an inauspicious start. The social media giant's shares tumbled 8.9% on Tuesday, scrubbing $8.3bn in market value. Since its initial price of $38 last Friday, shares have fallen to $31, reducing the company's value from $104bn to $85bn.
Financial regulators are investigating whether banks in charge of the IPO broke rules on the floatation's eve by selectively releasing negative news about Facebook to big investors but not the general public.
Other companies in Silicon Valley said if Mark Zuckerberg and his executives were guilty of anything it was shrewdly calculated greed, not overreach, and that the rest of the tech industry did not feel chastened.
Vasudev Bhandarkar, a CEO and board member of several companies,
including GlobalLogic, a research and development outfit, said
Facebook did not want to leave any money on the table. "It's not
hubris, it's ruthlessness. They did the best for themselves and ended
up screwing investors. Mark Zuckerberg has been very single-minded
about the valuation of his company."
Steve Blank, a start-up entrepreneur who teaches at Stanford University, said: "They twisted the arms of their bankers and sucked dry the maximum
amount of money they could. They went home laughing. Should they have done that? Probably not. But if they can deliver profits all will be forgiven."
Blank expected five to 10 more Silicon Valley companies to seek listings within the next 12 months.
In New York, Sam Hamadeh, founder of the analyst PricVo, disagrees. "That sound you can hear now is the soiund of the IPO window shutting," he said. Facebook was supposed to be the IPO that ushered in a new wave of tech share sales, he said. Instead, shareholders had been left with the impression that early investors had made a killing at the expense of anyone foolish enough to buy in at inflated prices.
Hamadeh said there were many good tech companies now preparing for IPOs – including Spotify and Rovio, the maker of Angry Birds – that would now face far tougher conditions thanks to Facebook's problems. Those firms and many others had been banking on a successful IPO from Facebook to boost their own share sales.
"They had all been expecting a halo effect from Facabook's IPO," said Hamadeh. "That's gone."
Chicago securities attorney Andrew Stoltmann said in the short-term tech IPOs were in a lot of trouble. "I wouldn't want to be a tech firm looking at an IPO right now. This is so high profile that any investor is bound to be looking twice at other tech sales," he said.
Litigation and regulator inquiries are likely to keep the IPO in the headlines for all the wrong reasons, said Stoltmann, making it still harder for other companies looking to go public.
The IPO row had created a headache for Facebook's public relations department but the company's core managerial team probably had no regrets, said Bhandarkar. He predicted Facebook's shares would fall to between $20 and $25 within six months but that it would shake off the controversy and continue to thrive. "It's a very, very strong company. I'm very bullish about it."
Despite widespread accusations that Nasdaq bungled the floatation, causing multiple delays and frustrations on the first day, Bhandarkar said Silicon Valley would continue to use the stock market.
"It has not done an unjust job over the past 15 years. They've done reasonably well." GlobalLogic, he said, "would most likely consider Nasdaq" for its own IPO.
Most in Silicon Valley believe that Facebook will weather the bad headlines. Aaron Levie, the 27-year-old co-founder of Box, a cloud computing firm a few miles from Facebook at Palo Alto, said in an email interview that Facebook's size and profile made its stock market debut a special case. Other software firms had had successful IPOs in the past year, he said.
"We've seen very strong public offerings from Splunk, Jive, ExactTarget, LinkedIn and others; Workday's expected IPO will also certainly be one to watch." The best gauge of Facebook's long term viability, he said, would be whether it could continue its pace of innovation. "All past execution points to it doing very well in the future."
He may well be right, but the impact on Facebook's younger peers may take longer to shake off.
Technology news, comment and analysis | guardian.co.uk:
Shiv Malik: Twitter suspends account for using London 2012 Olympics logo
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 6PM.
Activists who set themselves up as 'official Olympics protesters' are suspended after complaint from London 2012 organisers
Twitter has cracked down over online infringement of the Olympic logo after the Games' organisers, Locog, complained that an activist group had used the trademark 2012 image to parody the London sporting festival.
A week after Space Hijackers set themselves up as the "official protesters of the London 2012 Olympic Games", Twitter suspended the account without warning, saying the satirists' use of the logo as a Twitter picture was an abuse of its rules as it meant they could be "confused" with an actual Olympic sponsor.
In correspondence with the group, Twitter is understood to have written: "We have received reports from the trademark holder, London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games Ltd [Locog], that your account, @spacehijackers, is using a trademark in a way that could be confusing or misleading with regard to a brand affiliation. Your account has been temporarily suspended due to violation of our trademark policy."
The group says that after it wrote to Twitter, the account was unlocked late on Wednesday afternoon and it had been given 48 hours to comply with Twitter's orders or face having the account, with its 2,700 followers, permanently suspended.
A spokesman for the group who used the name "Bristly Pioneer" said he was surprised at Twitter's decision. "Our latest project is to do with the Olympics and obviously they have got an official chocolate bar and an official TV and the rest of it and we thought what they were missing was an official set of protesters," he said.
"We were kind of surprised that Twitter, after having after having supported everyone through the Arab spring … shut down our account without even asking any questions … they locked us straight out of the count, no questions."
The group, who once tried to sell a tank at a UK arms fair, said it was clearly not trying to sell "fake tickets to the Games" and that what it was engaged with was "purely social commentary".
"These trademark laws are set up so that Pepsi don't infringe on Coca Cola's branding. It is not set up so Locog can stamp down on a school fete because they've got some Olympic rings on their iced buns."
The spokesman added that the group had had "instant support" including from the comedian Mark Thomas, who changed his Twitter avatar to that of Space Hijackers' redesigned Olympic logo in anarchist black and red.
Pioneer also described the logo as a "social meme" that had become part of the London landscape. However, despite its ubiquitous presence, he said, it could not be used by ordinary people. "It's like Voldemort – you're not allowed to mention it otherwise you'll invoke the wrath of Locog."
Locog said it had complained to Twitter using normal channels open to any member of the public.
A spokesperson added that Locog was not taking issue with Space Hijackers' politics: "This is purely about our logo."
alexking.org » Blog:
Alex: The Damage Waiver Bearly Covered This One
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Ian Sample: Governments pose greatest threat to internet, says Google's Eric Schmidt
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 6PM.
Schmidt warns about rise of censorship and government cybercrime in speech at London's Science Museum
Nations that carry out cybercrimes and wreak online havoc pose the greatest threat to the future of the internet, the chairman of Google has warned.
In a speech delivered at London's Science Museum on Wednesday, Eric Schmidt said the internet would be vulnerable for at least 10 years, and that every node of the public web needed upgrading to protect against crime. Fixing the problem was a "huge task" as the internet was built "without criminals in mind" he said.
"While threats come from individuals and even groups of people, the biggest problem will be activities stemming from nations that seek to do harm. It is very difficult to identify the source of cyber-criminality and stop it," he said.
The Google chairman raised a series of fears in a speech that announced a new initiative to send teachers into UK schools to teach computer science, and called for more people to enter science and engineering to drive industry.
Speaking at the museum, Schmidt said he worried about the permanence of information on the internet and its impact on individuals in future. "The fact that there is no delete button on the internet forces public policy choices we had never imagined," he said. "A false accusation in your youth used to fade away; now it can remain forever."
Schmidt also used his speech to warn about the rise in governments that censor online material, up from four a decade ago to at least 40 today. Through filtering, governments could build their own "Balkanised web", where people saw different information online depending on who and where they were, without anyone knowing what had been censored.
"Make no mistake, this is a fight for the future of the web, and there is no room for complacency," he said.
Last year in the annual MacTaggart lecture, Schmidt was highly critical of Britain's failure to teach computer programming in schools. Continuing the theme at the Science Museum, he blamed a lack of exposure to computer science in secondary schools, where only 4,000 students studied the subject in 2011, making up less than half a percent of that year's A-level results.
A January report from the Royal Society agreed there was a shortage of teachers equipped to teach the nuts and bolts of computer science, from computer architecture to the concept of an algorithm and writing software. Since then, the education secretary, Michael Gove, has scrapped the existing ICT curriculum, freeing schools to teach a broader mix of computer science and programming.
Schmidt conceded that "rebooting computer science education" would not be straightforward, and announced plans to fund a training scheme for teachers to help improve Britain's failing computer science education system.
Working with the charity Teach First, Schmidt said the first batch of 100 "first-rate" teachers would be trained this summer and have bursaries to buy teaching aids, such as cheap Raspberry Pi or Arduino computer starter kits. They will receive on-the-job mentoring and training for a further two years. The Google project aims to help around 20,000 pupils from the most disadvantaged communities.
A vocal champion of engineering, in his speech on Wednesday Schmidt also emphasised the need to dispel the "oily rag stereotype" view of engineers. Research by Intel in the US, he said, found that two thirds of teenagers never considered a career in engineering. But simply learning about their roles in making video games and social networking, and in high-profile incidents such as the rescue of the Chilean miners, made half reconsider.
"Put simply, technology breakthroughs can't happen without the scientists and engineers to make them. The challenge society faces is to equip enough people, with the right skills and mindset, and to get them to work on the most important problems.
"This is where education comes in. Great scientists are a rare breed, so the more who study science, the greater chance of finding those for whom it becomes a vocation. Although there are some signs of progress, so long as more kids aspire to win X Factor than win a Nobel Prize, there's room to improve," Schmidt said.
Last year, Google donated more than £1m to the Science Museum to fund a gallery on the history of communications, from telegraphs to tweets. Part of the money has funded an exhibition devoted to the life and legacy of Alan Turing, often described as the "father of the computer", which opens next month. Among the exhibits will be installations that anyone in the world can control over the internet, including one that allows people to make music through remote controlled robotic instruments.
Technology news, comment and analysis | guardian.co.uk:
Jack Schofield: Eugene Polley obituary
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 5PM.
Father of the Flash-Matic, the first wireless TV remote control
On his death at the age of 96, the US inventor Eugene Polley has received the accolade he wanted most: to be recognised as the father of the TV remote control. As he told the Baltimore Sun in November 2000: "It makes me think maybe my life wasn't wasted. Maybe I did something for humanity – like the guy who invented the flush toilet."
Polley's problem was that his invention, the raygun-like Flash-Matic remote control, was quickly superseded by a more popular device, the Space Command, which was developed by Robert Adler, his colleague at what was then Zenith Radio Corp. This led to Adler becoming known as the father of the remote control, though as Polley observed: "A father has to be present at conception. And if you're not, you're not the father."
Adler had, in fact, developed the first TV remote control, Lazy Bones, which Zenith introduced in 1950. This was a controller on the end of a long wire, which meant people could trip over it. Zenith's president, Eugene F McDonald, wanted a wireless version, and Polley came up with the Flash-Matic. This was, essentially, a hi-tech torch. Users pointed it at four photocells positioned next to the corners of the TV screen to trigger actions. They could turn the TV on and off, move to the next or previous channel, and mute the sound.
The Flash-Matic was launched in 1955 and was a great success. However, users could forget which corner performed which action, and their TV could respond erratically to, for example, sunlight through a window. As a result, in 1956 Zenith switched to Adler's Space Command, which used small metal rods to generate high-frequency sound waves to control the set. Known as "the clicker", it was used until the early 1980s, when infra-red controls took over. Today's controllers are much closer to Polley's idea than to Adler's.
Adler and Polley were contrasting characters. Adler was a European scientist with a doctorate from the University of Vienna. Polley, a native of Chicago, was a self-taught inventor who worked his way up from a menial job in Zenith's stockroom in 1935. Polley had studied at the City Colleges of Chicago and the Armour Institute (now the Illinois Institute of Technology). However, he dropped out to take a job because his mother, Vera Wachowski, was struggling during the depression. Polley's father, described as a bootlegger, deserted the family when Polley was about 10.
Polley's natural aptitudes took him a long way at Zenith. He occupied positions including product engineer, mechanical engineer, head of video recording group and assistant division chief. During the second world war, he worked on bomb fuses and radar while on secondment to the defence department. Later he contributed to the development of push-button radios for cars. In all he earned 18 US patents, while Adler gained 180. Both men retired in 1982, when Polley had worked for Zenith for 47 years. Polley, by then a widower, lived with his daughter, Joan, in a cluttered house in Lombard, near Chicago. He always kept an original Flash-Matic to hand.
In his later years, Polley felt he did not get enough credit for his invention. In an interview with the Chicago Tribune in 2006, he said: "Not only did I not get credit for doing anything, I got a kick in the rear end." In fact, he had been awarded a $1,000 bonus. When the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences gave Zenith an Emmy for developing the TV remote control, both Polley and Adler collected it.
Polley's wife, Blanche, to whom he was married for 34 years, died in 1976. Their daughter, Joan, died in 2008. He is survived by his son, Eugene, and a grandson, Aaron.
• Eugene Polley, inventor, born 29 November 1915; died 20 May 2012
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Dan Sabbagh: Lord Justice Leveson discusses role of bloggers
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 4PM.
Evidence from Andrew Marr that blogs are 'as influential as any newspaper' prompts debate on whether they are journalists
Lord Justice Leveson has queried whether bloggers would have to be brought in a revised system of press regulation, as he heard evidence from Andrew Marr about the growing power of political websites.
The BBC journalist and politics show presenter said that ConservativeHome and other sites are "now as influential as any newspaper" and any new system of regulation proposed by the judge "would have to include those alongside newspapers".
Marr said that political bloggers were often "card-carrying party members" often with "strong contacts with their side", which meant that they could not be treated as "old-fashioned journalists" but were nevertheless increasingly significant.
The observation prompted Leveson to reflect that he saw an "enormous spectrum" of online material ranging from a simple text to bloggers who are "a trade or a business" as he touched on the boundaries of regulation.
He went on to ask rhetorically whether regulation might distinguish between those who are "simply commenting" and sites "getting towards the business end of journalism" – a clear signal that he was continuing to give thought to the issue.
Earlier, Leveson asked Marr – also a former editor of the Independent – to reflect on the differences between press and broadcast regulation.
Marr said that the BBC code of conduct for journalists was "stringent and so carefully monitored" for somebody coming from a newspaper background. He added that when he joined the BBC, the level of monitoring was unexpected "because really every phrase that you use… exactly how long you talk to people for, all of that is being watched".
But Marr said that he did not believe that newspapers would necessarily prosper under heavier regulation. He said: "Newspapers are in a very, very parlous state in this country… most of them are hollowed out, they are very short of money … and none of them yet has found plausible answer to the challenges revenue brought by the internet.
"A new system of regulation placed on top of that, you know might be like taking away the feeding tube right at the end or the oxygen mask. So those would be my worries."
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Stuart Dredge: NPD survey shows strong demand for free apps for kids
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 4PM.
But what kind of business does that mean for app developers targeting this market?
A lot of parents are handing their smartphones and tablets to their children to use apps, and a lot of developers and brands are making apps to target them. But how many of those apps are actually being paid for?
A survey conducted by US market research firm NPD Group suggests not many. In fact, it claims that "there are an average of 12 apps on mobile devices that kids have access to, with 88% of those apps being acquired for free".
NPD goes on to note that games are "by far" the most popular app genre used by children, and warns that kids aren't the most loyal app users. "While there are a number of engaging and entertaining apps available to kids, many are used and abandoned after a short time," says analyst Anita Frazier.
I'm puzzled about the 12 apps per average device figure, given that separate research from Nielsen earlier in the month suggested that in the US, at least, the average smartphone now has 41 apps installed.
Even so, the key points here – which are slightly worrying for developers making apps for children – are the seemingly large appetite for a constant succession of free apps.
That's no different to the wider apps market, of course. Yet while developers in other areas see in-app purchases (and to a lesser extent, advertising) as their way to make money from this appetite for freebies, both of these models are problematic when it comes to children's apps.
Apple has already been sued in the US over the existence of "bait apps", following several controversies in 2011 when children blew their parents' credit cards on in-app purchases within freemium games.
And advertising? That's another can of worms when it comes to children's apps, in terms of policing what ads are shown, and keeping to legislation around the world on marketing to children. It's no surprise that a number of prominent kid-app developers make a virtue in their app store listings of not using IAP or ads.
Which brings us back to the question of how many companies are making good money from apps for children, in order to build a sustainable business for the future.
And if the answer is "not many", is there a risk that over time, the kid-apps market will become more about big brands using free apps to market, say, physical toys or TV shows, and less about developers and startups making original, creative paid apps for children?
Which is not to say that the big-brand apps are a bad thing, all of the time. But writing as a parent, as much as a journalist, I hope the original stuff doesn't get squeezed out in the months and years ahead.
Technology news, comment and analysis | guardian.co.uk:
Charles Arthur: Google's Eric Schmidt refuses to back down over antitrust accusations in Europe
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 3PM.
Search giant's executive chairman rejects suggestions it will have to change how it presents search results in Europe
Google's executive chairman Eric Schmidt on Tuesday is set for a showdown with the European Commission's antitrust commissioner when he rejected suggestions the search giant will have to change how it presents search results in Europe.
Speaking at Google's Big Tent event in Hertfordshire, Schmidt said "we disagree that we are in violation" of European monopoly rules and said Joaquín Almunia, the antitrust commissioner, had not outlined the EC's objections.
Almunia wrote to Schmidt on Monday saying the EC has identified "four concerns where Google business practices may be considered as abused of dominance". In Europe Google has about 90% of the search market.
The two sides have scheduled a meeting for the coming weeks, he said.
Schmidt said "the letter is all we've heard from them" – although the EC's investigation opened in November 2010. "We haven't heard the details. I'm not going to speculate on the details."
Almunia's letter said the EC is concerned about Google's promotion of its own products over rivals' in searches for items such as shopping, over its copying and re-display of content from restaurant sites, over its restrictions on competitors' ads appearing alongside its own, and the portability of advertising campaigns from Google's Adwords system.
The EC has the power to exact fines of up to 10% of a company's global revenues if it determines that a company has abused a dominant position. For Google, that could amount to $4bn (£2.6bn). Microsoft and Intel have fallen foul of its antitrust group, suffering swingeing fines. Almunia has indicated that he would wish to settle with Google without seeking legal recourse in order to have a speedy remedy – but if not, that a full "statement of objections" could follow.
"He is encouraging us to have a conversation," said Schmidt. "We completely agree [to that]. We disagree that we are in violation. Until they are precise about what areas of the law we have violated, it will be very difficult for me to speculate."
Technology news, comment and analysis | guardian.co.uk:
Charles Arthur: Google's Big Tent event: porn, copyright, Eric Schmidt and all – live
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 3PM.
Google's second Big Tent event is in its second year - and this year has panels on pornography, copyright and more
4.33pm: Harkaway: Most dangerous time for a revolution is after the tumult, that's why Occupy is different because it's just reflection of how people feel rather than a political aim. Else we go back to the 20th century revolutionary politics where you have riots and then you have a new set of guys who do just the same at the top of the tree.
And that's the end - and the end of today's live blog. Thanks for staying with us today, hope it was useful (if it wasn't blocked by your work. Well, we couldn't help Amanda Platell going into remarkable detail about what she found on a porn site.)
4.28pm: Q (from BigBrotherWatch): Why do you think people hand over data to companies that governments couldn't get without protest?
Q (from Hansard Society: how could we force creators of these platforms to take our protection more seriously? What leverage could we have?
Harkaway: as an individual you have very little power to make that happen. As a group, you can demand much more. We as individuals whether in political context or whatever.. that's the only way to affect things. We need to create the institutions that will support the society we want to live in. The only answer is collective action.
Keen: re governments/corporations, I'm not sure whether we don't hand it over willingly. We don't have it to internet companies, because certain internet companies, some in this room, can present themselves as being on the side of the consumer… It's not just about will, it's also about commitment. Political groups that have come out of social media have all failed to go from original culture of self-congratulation, that's the challenge.
4.24pm: Q: but a lot of companies are upfront about offering free services in return for your data?
Keen: who does? (questioner: Google) But where? I haven't found a place on the Google website where it says it does that. LinkedIn's terms of service is 6000 words - you'd need a lawyer to read it. I never read terms of service. Who here reads them? [About 4 people raise hands. Lawyers from Google?]
It's easy to vilify companies like Google and Facebook for leveraging, not selling, their data.
Harkaway: it's interesting if you're using a service that does that to ask yourself: if I was paying £10 per month, do I value my data higher than that? And I do.
Keen: yes but the 5bn people Eric Schmidt is welcoming will be less willing, less able to pay that, so as more and more of the developing world goes online, and the issue of identity becomes more sensitive - I gave a speech in Oslo, I was talking about personal data and impact on society, some Africans came up to me and said this was unimaginable because privacy was so essential to their societies. I fear the biggest struggle is yet to come.
4.20pm: Harkaway: Google says young people don't care about privacy, but when asked if they'd let their parents see their phone bills and other stuff they say no.
There is a sense that everything should be easy, but easy decisions are the ones we should be scared of because if they're easy then we're probably being sold something. This is why I'm worried about "nudge" - it's pushing people in the direction of what you think they should be doing. Easy decisions are dangerous ones.
Q: is there something in how piracy is done, starting with what looked like mass piracy that people shifted towards hiding their identity with VPNs? Are those a precursor of what you're hoping for?
Keen: perhaps best exampel is Spotify, Rhapsody, iTunes if it goes to subscription. There has been a shift from dodgy downloads to actually paying. We do have to rethink this idea of free. We don't demand it in any other sphere, so why do we on the internet?
Free services like Wikipedia I don't think benefit anyone - they don't benefit the professional because they're not paid.. [missed second part of his response, which looked at the other element] .. We need to be more explicit about business models.
4.15pm: Keen: Zuckerberg wants to take us back to the dorm room where we all know each other. I don't want to, I want to go to the city. Eric Schmidt said you'll have to get a new identity when you get older. Zuckerberg only wants us to have one identity.
So we don't live in the old world. But I don't want everyone to know what I've done. We all know every kind of example we could throw out there. The world we see online is very spiteful, we all know about people who have had bad stories thrown at them. If we were more generous I might be more happy about the reputation economy.
Moderator: for those who grew up without the internet, we're often scared about what will happen to children when they go for university or jobs.
Harkaway: it's a parenting issue, you have to do it publicly in the house - you have to share all this at ground level, with children it's something between parents and kids. It may be personally difficult, but if you didn't think parenting was going to be a challenge then someone misinformed you.
4.11pm: Keen: I keep getting called a luddite, I keep quoting the fictional Sean Parker in the Social Network saying first we lived in villages, then cities, then the internet.
Schmidt says the internet doesn't know how to forget, but humans do, and there are technologies that will learn how to forget. Being human in the digital world is about building a digital world for humans, we're building it.
Harkaway: this is something that we collectively have to do, make the social/digital world one where we can do something. Someone said my book is more of a digital activism book, which is true in a sense.
In 1990s we were encouraged to think by governments that we would get richer and richer, the idea of free, to believe that was what was happening. But it's not true, there are other costs. The next step is a reasonable understanding of how we want to live and how we're going to pay for it.
Keen: I'm not a libertarian. I see two influences out of Silicon Valley - this radicalised ideal of individualism coming out of this [Ayn] Randian idea and the fetishisation of the social. For many of these people the social is just a mirror of themselves. I'm not against the social, but I want something genuinely social, not something that has been fetishized as social so that a group of people can feel better about themselves.
4.07pm: Harkaway: there's a tendency to say "we'll wait until someone fixes it" but you have to make the world do what you want.
Keen: I think consumers need to be more clear about this, there's a lot of ideology about "free", that we can have free services, free content, it's one of the reasons why the music industry which I defend has been decimated. Consumers think they can have everything, from these free services, and at the same time own their own data. Google has done a good job branding itself as a public utility, but people have to get used to the idea that people have to pay for services which explicitly say they won't do anything with that data.
I give Google the benefit of the doubt, with Circles in Google+ they are trying to preserve privacy, more than Facebook, but it's these new companies which are making privacy the core of the product.
Q from Bill Thompson (whom Keen called out): the dilemma over what we can expect to get and where to get the boundaries...isn't so extreme. What is the common ground between you two?
4.02pm: Moderator: asks Keen about his complaint about digital narcissim, that we should learn from others rather than broadcasting. But there's a more interesting critique, as you go from industrial to knowledge-based, as we have more and more mobility, a radically individualised culture, these platforms become a way to peddle our brands - we're emerging into the reputation economy where platforms are the metric for it.
Cathay Pacific in its SF lounge will let you sit in their lounge if you have a Klout score above 50. [Am totally going to SF.] You can't be on Glance unless you're on Facebook. We don't have a choice about Facebook any more. The choice element is less obvious than it seems. Maybe the 1bn poor people and a few hundred thousand rich people can afford not to be on it.. the rest of us don't have any choice.
Moderator: do people know not to be online?
Harkaway: I have wrangles with Facebook, entered fictitious trips because I can't get the map to get off my page, don't want people to know where I live. It is possible to carve out a space that's your own.
We should be worrying about if you live in the city you're more likely to have anxiety or mood disorders and to be schizophrenic. More than the problems people have from social media.
Moderator: maybe that's because it's early - maybe in 10 years we will.
3.55pm: Keen suggests that we have to move away from the entirely ad-supported business because the needs of it means that it has to keep driving into privacy, and that's not good for anyone because we all need to have something about us that is secret from some people.
Now Nick Harkaway - argues that we need as humans to have social connections, that the social revolution is a change on top of another revolution.
3.50pm: And back again now with Andrew Keen, talking aout his book Digital Vertigo, and Nick Harkaway, author of The Blind Giant (subtitle: "Being human in a digital world").
The session: "Good or evil: has the social revolution enhanced or diminished our society?"
Keen is well-known as someone who is suspicious about digitalisation turning us into less surprising beings. Harkaway is far less extreme - he's more of an observer.
Keen talking, quotes Schmidt about how identity is defined by others rather than ourselves - "I find that troubling, the internet hasn't learnt how to forget".
2.32pm: And that's the Eric Schmidt talk done. Comment: interesting how hard he pushed back on the EC antitrust thing. It was the one key point where eh resisted the suggestion completely.
2.28pm: Q: Google keeps manipulating search, we'll have a narrower internet, eventually of just one. That must be a bad thing.
Schmidt: a lot of people have your concern, so far it does not seem to be true. Personalisation doesn't produce that effect. And you can always search anonymously to get the "generic" result.
2.25pm: Q: Google Buzz led to FTC investigation, then there was Street View and the Wi-Fi data grab, and then the Safari cookie hack. Does Google have a management problem?
Schmidt. The three things were separate and were not approved or were mistakes. Wi-Fi was a mistake, we reported it when we found out. The Safari one is more complicated because it's about industry practice.
Over and over again we are pushing the envelope, sometimes we get it wrong and we apologise.
Moderator: but it's about culture, does your culture encourage them to push things where they think they're doing the right thing, but in fact it's illegal?
Schmidt: you're making the classic journalistic mistake, taking three things out of 10,000, we've spent a lot of time with our employes explaining these things.
The people involved thought they were doing the right thing, but in fact they were doing the wrong thing.
2.19pm: Q: CP Snow suggested that industrialisation would remove global poverty by 2000 - are we too optimistic about communications tech?
Schmidt: it's had a huge impact on 2bn people who have gone from poverty to lower-middle class. It will give them access, not free but cheap.
Q: you feel Google's role is to make sure people have access to information. Aleks was talking about the next step, serendipity, what you start to do with that information. Is the future of Google how people use information or just providing it?
Schmidt: what I think future of Google is - these 10 links we provide, trying to go from that kind of answer to an insightful answer, like who is the PM of Britain. Our AI is getting good enough that we'll go from syntax to semantics, and we'll be offering that.
Q: when a Google autonomous car?
Schmidt: they're amazing to be in... you'll treat it more as an autopilot or cruise control.
Moderator: why did you do it?
Schmidt: (flapping his arms) because it's fun. It has nothing to do with search. It's just fun. We have because of Google Maps, accurate maps - Larry thought it was cool.
2.15pm: Q: antitrust - EC says it wants remedies - is Google accepting penalties down the line?
Schmidt: I had a nice conversation with the commssioner, and a letter on Monday, in our conversation and in his letter and my response we've agreed to have further discussions, the letter is all we've heard from them, we haven't heard the details, I'm not going to speculate on the details.
Q: but you must know what they are. Seems like you're not playing ball. If you don't accept these remedies...those four areas.. you're not answering the question here. Surprised you don't have a better response.
Schmidt: he hasn't told us... you and I don't agree [to questioner]. He is encouraging us to have conversation. We completely agree [to that]. We disagre that we are in violation in general. Until they are precise about what areas of the law we have violated it will be very difficult for me to speculate. Google actually wants data - give us the precise example, the precise problem, we don't know yet.
2.12pm: Q: your social strategy - rumours that Google+ hasn't realised success you were hoping for. And place of social in Google and in the search engine?
Schmidt: this is a rumour creating a target we didn't say about internal goals we don't have comparing us to a rival that's very well managed and has been around 12 years. [Facebook? It's 8.]
Our Google+ efforts did start in the last 6-12 months... now more tha n150m users. They are using in ways that make sense to us, Hangouts seems to be the current breakout product. For us there's value in creating that social graph. Don't you think YouTube would be better if we have better information about your friends, with your permission? Don't you think we'll have better info for search if we have those signals ... we are already seeing that in our core business. Google+ is doing better than I expected given the difficulty of entering the market.
2.10pm: Moderator: Motorola deal, where's it going?
Schmidt: we wanted a stake in hardware businesses, we closed as of this morning in Chicago, right now, so there's a meeting of the employees. As part of that we'll be announcing the things we'll be doing with Motorola. More investment in products and a lot more focus on Android and the tools even than they have today.
Questions from audience: Index on Censorship: are you saying Google won't push back boundaries on censorship?
Schmidt: trying to avoid fight with governments, saying these are principles we care about.
2.08pm: Moderator: do younger not care about privacy?
Schmidt: younger people don't seem at first to care, but record of what you did 10 -20 years ago used to be hard to find, now it's easy to find.
But say you're 18 and you're falsely accused of something, and the trial acquits you. In the old day the records would be sealed, but now even with UK privacy it would be leaked - we've had examples in Britain of things being leaked. Once published, not deletable.
Moderator: you'll maintain neutrality about what apps do?
Schmidt: for apps, primarily for Android, we won't police them ahead of time unlike Apple which does a sort of micromanagement of the apps ahead of time. We prefer a reactive model.
Moderator: why? Because you have less to do or because you favour openness?
Schmidt: I hope it's the latter though there's a little of the former.
2.04pm: Moderator: the argument is you treat your search results differently for your products - do you?
Schmidt: the way we've designed Google is pro-competitive and good for users. If not we want to hear why.
Moderator: Is it an attack on freedom of speech?
Schmidt: Don't want to get into that, our success is determined by being one click away, competitor on click away, we have to be honest with the user. We have the onebox, so that's where it gets tricky.
Moderator: has the privacy question moved on with the argument about apps and privacy agreements?
Schmidt: privacy is going to be a concern for a long time, the thing that's different is the way that people publish stuff about themselves, and it can't be taken back. If your born today your identity gets defined more by other people than by you.
We think you should be able to edit the data about you in Google via the [privacy] dashboard. There will always be issues around this.
2.02pm: Schmidt: if you're going to make a law, make a law that actually works. It's extraordinarily difficult [to make a law that works technically][.
The best practices we know is where it's noticed by other people when uploaded and then taken down. Pre-screening would effectively eliminate the internet as we know it.
Moderator: EC saying you have to change way you do search resultys. Will you change?
Schmidt: we're going to have a meeting. We think we're pretty OK, we're consistent with European and local law. Don't want to prejudge what we'll do before we hear what they want to do.
Moderator: this was portrayed as a bit dismissive.
Schmidt: we're not aware of anything we've done wrong, but we're prepared to be educated to the contrary.
1.59pm: Schmidt: it bothers me as an American [re computer programming] that you have not remained in the lead on this. Computer curriculum has changed.
Choice A is that Britain can be a good farming island with good services and pleasant people. Or it can be a knowledge workers' island for the whole world. One is much better suited.
The change is well understood. Britain is among the most-connected nations, so you have a lot of things going on for you.
Moderator: censorship of porn? What's your advice to government?
Schmidt: Each country makes a different decision on adult pornography, but the good news is that even governments you hate, hate child pornography.
What I worry about is that such laws are often slippery slopes, such a law has to be defined very precisely and technical can be implemented. In many other countries adult pornography legislation is an attempt to legislate something else.
1.56pm: Moderator: so what is Google's role in that?
Schmidt: our mission is to get the world's information to you... so we don't judge about that. We care a lot about openness, to the extent that governments are more open and honest we think that's positive.
Moderator: the 5bn...
Schmidt: In Africa you find children don't have textbooks so they teach using Google, shows you how inventive people are. To the 5bn - openness and transparency in how governments work, connectivity for individuals.
Moderator: how does an organisation like Google help stop technology simply putting people out of work?
Schmidt: Google is not a jobs program for people put out of work... answer is education. If you thought when you got your job at 20 that it would never change you were misinformed. Retrain yourself to be curious.
If you thought the model was learn in college and high school and then stop, you wre misinformed. [Note how he doesn't say "wrong".]
Look at the automated loom and what that did to the work of sheep herders [shepherds?]. They got through it.
1.51pm: Schmidt: But there are people who are coming out of poverty, it will affect them.
You can understand Tunisia revolution as a failure to censor the internet. And Libya had that failure too. It's very difficult for governments that are autocratic and don't have broad popular support to be in power when a lot of people have these devices. That was what Arab Spring was about, that people could express this and lead to revolution.
Moderator: could it be an instrument of control?
Schmidt: China is an experiment - you can see it as a success of censoring the elite but not most. If you look at Weibo then when they try to cover up a train accident or other crisis people use it to complain, that does put pressure on an autocratic government. Even those sorts of governments are sensitive to shame and embarrassment, you can hold them to some level of accountability.
Moderator: what's role of technology in economic crisis?
Schmidt: look at where it isn't - it's not uniform, Brazil is growing. Global financial crisis was caused by errors in management of cash. But also nature of globalisation. You can't put a fence around an island like Britain. Globalisation is here to stay.
Another factor is rate at which businesses are automating. Bad news is that automation prevents businesses hiring for another job they don't need. To create jobs you have to come up with investments and you have to do that in the face of knowledge workers and financial crisis.
1.47pm: Moderator apologises for the heat. It is baking. Well, -ish. Worse for the people outside serving hot food wearing dark clothes under a transparent plastic roof.
And now Eric Schmidt, Google executive chairman.
Schmidt: If I go through the headlines for the next 5-10 years more people are going to be joining the conversation. About a billion smartphones, now, 2 billion people connected to the internet, so the next 5-10 years according to what estimates, reasonable to expect another 5 bn. Most will be on mobile phones, presently about 5bn mobile phones of which 4bn are featurephones.
They will love their smartphone more than you do because it's how they get educated, they will use Wi-Fi rather than data networks.
Moderator: how big will the divide be? The internet still will not touch many people.
Schmidt: people who have nothing will still get something. You will be able to do things in first world like robotic holography.. but everyone benefits, there's a problem in the world with the bottom 1bn, but they're the hardest ones to solve, they have corrupt governments, high infant mortality.
1.43pm: And we're back and waiting for Eric Schmidt to appear and tell us about "5 billion voices" - which we assume is those voice on the internet.
12.35pm: Q from member of the Music Managers' Forum: every year music industry revenues going down, but aggregators like Apple or Huffington Post doing well. We need legislation... a carrot and stick
Linehan: the sticks at the moment are terrible. The piracy warnings are terrible, three strikes is terrible.
Hyman: better education is the thing. Start respecting people, treat them as fans. On teh aggregator point, I'm torn - the music industry artists have never had that easy a time. Now rather than the labels making the money it's aggregators and retailers. But question is how you get money to artists.
Linehan: the love that's out there - when you see a favourite creator launching something on Kickstarter, there was the guy who did DoubleFine Games to get point-and-click adventure games because he couldn't get it funded - raised $3m in 28 days, because he went on Kickstarter with a great video to drum up the business. It's seen as humiliating to go to consumers asking for money, but why not?
I think films would get a lot better if people paid leaving the cinema. There's a whole business plan of opening terrible films in hundreds of cinemas and then closing them when the word of mouth gets out.
--and that's the end of the copyright panel. Join us again at 1345 BST for Eric Schmidt's thoughts on what life will be like with 5bn people connected to the internet - many of them not via a desktop or laptop.
12.30pm: Taylor: for recorded music if people want to interact with it at home, great, there will be some interactions that people won't like - you might not want the BNP doing things with it, Graham [Linehan] may feel the same. But the original artist needs to be paid.
The Limewire case - that was huge. BPI has never said that every illegal download is a lost sale, we said 1.2bn downloads of illegal music files in the UK in 2011. About 7m people regularly downloading, you can get a pretty good picture. In terms of how much that loses you have to do some modelling, so we reckon we lose a couple of hundred million pounds, in a billion-pound industry.
But we have to tackle sites like Pirate Bay which are making money off illegal content.
Q: Apple is biggest threat to music by taking 30% off every sale?
Message: Apple takes a retail margin, you can do a non-exclusive deal, you can sell what you like off your own website for superfans, you can mop up casual punters.. it's there for people with casual habits - others will go through the pain of going through band's site for discovery. Apple for me is a good sales channel, for us as artists technology has made creation of content much easier.
Q but their retailing has a different form, they aren't earning that 30%?
Yaylor: that 30% cut is high but Apple created an ecosystem that is really good, generating money for our artists. We'd love to see Google launch such a great music service. [Yes, where is Google Music in Europe?]
Message: high street is tough, you sell on sale or return and stuff might come back a couple of years later... Internet [retailing] is good.
12.26pm: Q: odd how solution always seems to be more legislation with these problems. People were torrenting The It Crowd in the US because they had no legal access to it.
Linehan: another thing I don't agree with is the term piracy and the way it's been co-opted as something to be proud of, it puts people at opposite ends of the spectrum. These people aren't pirates, they're fans, I love them, and if they pay for it I love them even more. Let's find a way to do it.
Q: What about remix - the Downfall meme on the net where users take something and do a parody or spoof and get a great deal of enjoyment.
Message: It's great creativity, the more people doing that the better. The copyright debate is a heavy one in our [music] industry but we have to evolve it, board meetings at UK Music have to be less about copyright and legislation and move the debate on.
Hyman: you have to respect the artist's wishes, if they don't want it messed with, don't. But core issue is that framework for rights doesn't allow that flexibility. I would prefer it if someone like Creative Commons were thinking about how to push this stuff forward. Let people show that they're fans. You need a rights framework - the best I've seen is Creative Commons.
12.23pm: Linehan asked what he would say if independent study found that he could raise income by 50% if illegal downloads were stopped. He says he'd wonder how he could persuade them.
Spencer Hyman says games industry saw what was coming early on - moved away from something you put in a machine and press play. So with World of Warcraft you have to deal with what the internet enables, you have to be in the community, you have to do more.
12.18pm: Back to Taylor: I don't share Spencer [Hyman] that copyright isn't fit for purpose, copyright's doing what it should making sure people get paid, Graham gets his royalties from his programs.
At the BPI we run an innovation panel with labels and startups and try to get new ideas for launches. If you do nothing at all though about piracy it's very difficult for those tech businesses to grow - we've got to work this out with business solutions, why is it that when you search for Radiohead MP3 all the results are illegal, the top result should be the legal one.
Brian Message: for years the suggestion is that copyright is this great tool to finance becoming professional artists - but we can now crowdsource funding for our acts, we can put out music and get people in hundreds of companies, and say "come and be a part of the act", that removes copyright's stranglehold.
12.13pm: So, over to Geoff Taylor. Things we've really turned a corner, more digital music services in the UK than anywhere in the world - they're going well, about 80. But still music industry revenue is declining, and when talking to session musicians, others, they're feeling it - albums that used to sell 100K now sell 30K. We do have to get to grips with people making a lot of money from piracy and get that back into the legal business.
Brian Message (Radiohead manager): what I'm seeing and experiencing is that professional creators have huge opportunities for revenue, recorded music is smaller but capability for discovery is allowing us to grow our business in an exciting way. Having direct access to artists and consumers - frictionless as possible - that's the nub of it.
Spencer Hyman: have a look at the "Gutenberg Parenthesis" - before Gutenberg, you could all be performers and the good ones got paid. Then Gutenberg meant good writers could get paid and copyright was a wall around it. What Brian [Message] is saying is right - but challenges what copyright is built on.
Nobody talks about search engines in these copyright reports like Hargreaves - these key technologies should tell people things about things. Art has never had anything like radio, telling you what to do and find.
12.09pm: Moderator: 40bn music files shared illegally online last year. So that means that creators are losing hope of making a living from their creations - but we have to protect. So Graham Linehan - you have to get paid, surely.
Linehan: yup. (Pauses a long time.) I came here because there are certain things about the way the entertainment industry has been talking to me as a consumer that I find offensive. As a creator I did a search for IT Crowd and someone said on Twitter "downloading the IT Crowd", and I said "buy it if you like it", and he said "what's it to you" and someone else said "He wrote it, dude." I don't see why we are constantly resorting to holding a gun to their head and telling them what to do. 20 years ago there was a campaign in the Independent for cheaper CDs. Pre-internet, it didn't get a head of steam. And the music indsutry response was "no". Now, the consumers are the ones who when asked "will you stop downloading" are the ones who say "no".
Didn't want to suggest ways of solving it, but to suggest we move on past these twin poles.
12.07pm: Next up is a panel on Copyright issues - participants:
Graham Linehan
, writer of Father Ted and other works; Spencer Hyman (Artfinder, a London startup to help folk find art; formerly at Last.fm); Brian Message (chairman, Music Managers' Forum, and Radiohead's manager); Geoff Taylor, chief executive of the BPI, aka record labels in the UK.
12.00pm: Q: text processing: ....copyright stands in the way, what will you do?
Willetts: it's a tricky challenge, Hargreaves [Report on copyright] has helped, providing framework for academic data... work on common standards... there's a lot of work going on here - this goes back to academic publishing, one of the things they do is common standards that makes their texts all accessible. Government absolutely recognises this.
Q: someone who graduated 10 ya, was refused bank loan because of his debt - now earns as much as an MP but has student debt.
Willetts: what was your debt? [£12-13,000 startup loan.] At the moment in the current system you pay back 9% on earnings above 21K. It's an obligation to pay back through the tax system. But you're right about the threshold, so they will in future pay back less than you do. Financial services say they look at fixed monthly outgoings - 9% on 15K against 25K salary (he has to do the maths in his head - brutal in front of this audience) - you're paying back for longer now but we smooth it out.
Q: but bank says it's debt, you can't get loan for a startup.
Willetts: it's not a debt that's taken account of in bankruptcy - it's not a mortgage or credit card debt or bank loan, it's saying you'll pay a higher rate of income tax until you have paid back your higher education. Financial services looks at monthly outgoings. [Yes, but that's an outgoing.] It's not debt, not commercial debt.
And there you go - end of session. That seems to be an unsatisfactory answer - bigger debts mean bigger monthly outgoings.
11.57am: Q: suggestions that we need 200-400K more people with IT skills in the next years... that there's less interest in it in schools - computer science graduates among highest unemployed rate [are they? Surprising]. What needs to be done?
Willetts: the problem was being discussed by experts until Eric Schmidt with his McTaggart lecture brought it into the open, that energised the debate. We had done some things, like competitions for teenagers to proposa and write apps for mobile phones, and Google and others trying to bring curriculum to life, but computer science curriculum just seemed catastophitcally to be very boring and putting people off. Michael [Gove] is dealing with this at a school level, we are promoting links with business and universities.
Moderator: when see this in schools?
Willetts: Michael [Gove] has cancelled old one, moving to one where we have a creative constructor-producer model, understand that over next year it will evolve into a proper ccurriculum.
11.55am: Q: should taxpayer-funded research be published in openaccess and free publication?
Willetts: in favour of open access to publicly funed research. Academic journalis add value, they aren't parasitical extractors of rent, we have asked Janet Finch to report to use on how we get there. One route is the gold route - where you say instead of academic research being paid for by the university library or individual, part of the research grant includes a payment for release of the data.
Second model is green access, where you require that the material be available publicly but in order for the journals to remain viable you have a half-life rule - six to 12 months - where it's available for subscribers and then becomes available. Janet Finch will advise, will probably be a mixture of gold and green.
11.50am: Shift to virtual world going to transform everything about his work as a minister. Will still have physical places, but eg some law faculties don't have library because it's online. Different institutions have different mix of physical and virtual - eg Open University.
But also research - last year 1.7m research article, 400K of them in British-based journals. We're trying to get our heads around the big changes being made here, announcing today opening of Open Data Institute.
Next generation of research going to require data mining and text mining so that medics for example who can't physically be expected to read articles on their specialism will be able to have sophisticated sorting and ranking to access information they need.
Looking at scientific inquiry, next paradigm will be based on very large datasets. Scientists are in the lead in handling very large datasets - Hubble telescope or Large Hadron Collider are massive datasets.
In UK still have specific skills in production of software - want more links between academics that have skills and companies that need skills, eg for prototyping of car parts. Most exciting thing that the experts say is that - rather like the Persian king who offers an inventor a reward - he asks for a grain of wheat on first chess square, then 2 on next, then 4 then 8... we are now on the second half of the chessboard.
..(speech ends - had been expecting more on open access. Perhaps in the questions.)
11.45am: Willetts: challenge as university minister is about getting right balance of teaching and research. Think it's right to expect graduates to pay back once earning more than £21,000 per year. That shift away from grants from the government and to payback by students has enabled increase in cash to teaching in universities in this Parliament.
Also more cooperation between institutes.
11.39am: Willetts points to paradox of being in a room of experts in the web who come to a physical place for the exchange of ideas.
Willetts: looks tanned, light suit, no tie, is that a linen shirt? Really not the picture of a Whitehall minister that you would have had a few years ago - which would have been dark blue suit, white shirt, tie. And glasses, in Willetts's case.
Takling about clustering and how in a mobile society people still need to meet up to exchange ideas. Important for science and education, creativity comes from dense clusters. There are small clusters and larger ones: one definition of small cluster is place where you can change jobs without changing where you park a car.
We cluster to be innovative... Tech City is about that, Google Shoreditch campus, commitment to clusters from government.
Bigger clusters.. places where you can move jobs without having to move family.One of the theories about Silicon Valley is that the striking down of non-compete clauses in contracts helped creation of jobs there. Academics and VCs in Oxford and Cambridge ask for fast transport link between Oxford and Cambridge - used to have rail line, now torn up; want to be able to move Oxford-Cambridge-London without moving family.
11.38am: We're back with David Willetts, the higher education and science minister, speaking (Nicknamed "Two Brains" in Westminster, we're reminded.)
10.58am: Porn debate over. Conclusion: no conclusion. Sarah Hunter, Google's public policy director, says obligatory filters are a bad idea. Amanda Platell of the Daily Mail says they're a good idea. Index On Censorship and TalkTalk don't like much either.
In about 20 minutes we'll have David Willetts giving a keynote. Stay tuned!
10.44am: Hunter of Google: my son is a brilliant user of the iPad.. think we are the generation that is at sea on this one. (Says she grew up without internet, but her kids have grown up with it.)
(Hunter by the way is head of Public Policy, Government and Parliamentary relationships for Google in the UK .)
Hughes of IoC points out that what was declared obscene a century ago is now accepted as OK. (True, though it's a bit hard to know what will and won't be acceptable in a century - think of the language you can't use now that you did then.)
(Certain element of talking past each other in this. Nobody is quite engaging. IoC feels as absolute as does the Daily Mail position enunciated by Platell.)
Q: we find that education is the best filter (from an Australian journalist) - that using mobile gets kids engaged. That some schools are taking filters down. And makes the very good point that "it's a little hypocritical to be discussing this without a teenager up there on the stage." (Best comment of the day.)
Q: isn't this really an education problem, it's not a technological solution.
Show of hands about whether govt should legislate a TalkTalk system - a handful of hands. About three. Should you go further to Daily Mail system? Only Platell's hand is up.
10.38am: Someone from Cabinet Office asks for empirical evidence on this. Sarah Hunter of Google says that it's rather hard to find the control group where you have a parent saying "sure, test porn on my 7yo."
Q: we have age filters on movies. You need ID. Why is there such a concern about censorship if we apply filtering.
Hughes of IoC: these filters are blocking across the board, if you say everyone who has computer connection has to have default switches on that's like saying nobody can go to over-18 film or browse bookshop.
Hunter: definition of porn and porn sites isn't set, there's no previewing of porn sites to get age ratings. And block lists are drawn up in secret. Mobile filters - show sites blocked by O2 and Orange... what is worrying is that when site owner says that they're legal the carriers can't unblock them.
Platell for : isn't that something you can legislate against, you know who censors are for films, you should know what's being blocked.
Hughes of IoC says that proposals are like keeping everyone out unless they opt in, ie proving you're over 18.
Moderator: I was going to go to Twitter but #bigtentuk seems to have been spammed on Twitter...
10.30am: Platell says it's about being able to block stuff that is gross.
Hughes of IoC says we shouldn't be putting default switch on that puts adults into same category as children. If it's too hard (oo-er) for them.
Moderator: is pornography a big driver, how much money does Google make out of pornography?
Sarah Hunter of Google: we don't go out of our way - but it's legal, automated systems, allow people to advertise against legal content. As long as we put in sufficent safeguards for children. Pornhub [getting huge amount of publicity today....] wasn't initially blocked by TalkTalk filters - so filters aren't perfect, can't give parents a sense that it's all perfect.
Q from floor: is legislation to opt in for porn ultimately futile?
Sarah Hunter: SafeSearch can do something but for 14yo boys there's a limit on what you can do. Parents have to sit with their children when they're very young and have grown-up convos. Legislation would be a mistake.
Heaney of TalkTalk: yes you do get over- and under-blocking.
(Everyone seems to be agreeing that it's really very difficult, though Platell is out on a limb in wanting obligatory blocks and legislation.)
Hughes of IoC says her worry is about government saying there should be a filter on legal content.
10.23am: Now getting into the question of whether you would have political filters, morality filters, and so on. Heaney of TalkTalk says that you can do blocks on games sites. Nobody has quite gotten to Platell's point yet about accessibility, or got an answer here.
(Just as a reminder, I tried to tackle this question with Worried about online porn? Don't regulate the net – regulate your kids. Not sure if Platell has read it.)
Q from father of an 8yo: what's missing is personalisation - devices, context of the person's use. Network filtering can transcend location and control what child sees on multiple devices but it's up to the parent - don't need ISP making decision. Education is important.
Q "someone saying Mail is leading campaign against porn, I've gone onto Mail Online... steamy sex scene with Carey Mulligan, watch the video now."
Platell: I wouldn't have a problem with my kids seeing this today, but I do have a problem with Pornhub, Leonardo di Caprio isn't going to be tying her up...
Graham Linehan, from the floor, suggests search on Mail Online "all grown up" because that's about children who are now legal. Mail Online regularly does articles about child stars who are now 16. It means "this person is now available for sex." Says it's ironic that Mail is running anti-porn campaign while running pictures of people in bikinis.
10.18am:
Platell quotes stats about how many children have seen porn before age of 16. Concern seems to be that it's affecting middle-class images. "These images are so damaging". Moderator asks if she's in favour of censorship. She says yes, in some circumstances.
Google's Sarah Hunter says "we believe children shouldn't be seeing porn online. We don't want children to be unsafe online. Google also says: it's not that easy. Solutions being discussed aren't perfect. There are problems - deskilling parents by giving them solution that aren't themselves perfect. So most important thing is making sure parents know the risks children face online, give tools to protect children.
Q: can a clever teenager get around it?
Andrew Heaney: yes - it's one of many things.
Amanda Platell looking like she owns the sofa.
Lawyer Mark Stephens, former defender of Julian Assange, says that this is just an update of the porn mags of the earlier days.
Platell says that the images are completely different. Pornhub had pics of a woman being stripped and then forced to perform oral sex on another woman while.... OK, that's quite graphic, Amanda.
10.12am: First up is a session on pornography, Krishnan Guru-Murphy moderating, Amanda Platell from the Daily Mail leading for the anti-porn brigade: says she looked up Pornhub last night. Unsurprisingly, it was a bit shocking.
Andrew Heaney of TalkTalk saying it's too easy to slip over into censorship, that you shouldn't have a default block.
The Big Tent is at the Grove Hotel in sunny Hertfordshire. And boy, it's hot. Apparently last week they were ordering industrial heaters. Quick check on the weather forecast, and they swapped the order for industrial air conditioners.
The Big Tent is going on now - and here's the liveblog.
Technology news, comment and analysis | guardian.co.uk:
Dominic Rushe: Facebook accused of misleading investors
Posted on the 23rd of May at about 3PM.
Law firm Robbins Geller co-ordinating class lawsuit alleging that Facebook and its bankers cut their revenue growth forecasts
Facebook, Morgan Stanley and some of the biggest names in Silicon Valley are being pursued over the social network's disastrous share sale by the law firm that won a $7bn settlement for Enron's shareholders.
Robbins Geller is co-ordinating a class action lawsuit alleging that Facebook and its bankers misled investors about the true state of their business while informing a handful of privileged clients about the company's true prospects.
The lawsuit, filed in New York, names Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook's founder, as a defendant, as well as top Silicon Valley investors Peter Thiel and Marc Andreessen, and Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Barclays Capital.
It comes as US regulators announced they are investigating the handling of Facebook's initial public offering (IPO). More shareholder lawsuits are expected.
In its suit, Robbins Geller alleges that Facebook bankers cut their forecasts for the company's revenue growth during the middle of their IPO roadshow – when bankers and Facebook executives including founder Mark Zuckerberg met analysts and potential investors.
Reuters reported this week that in the run-up to the IPO Morgan Stanley told some major clients that consumer internet analyst Scott Devitt had cut his revenue forecasts for the Facebook.
On Tuesday Massachusetts' secretary of commonwealth William Galvin sent a subpoena to Morgan Stanley demanding more details.
Analysts are required to act independently of investment bakers, a stipulation that followed Wall Street's settlement with US regulators after the dotcom bubble scandal. Speaking on condition of anonymity, another internet analyst said it was highly unusual for an analyst at an IPO's lead banker to cut forecasts so late in a share sale.
Facebook had previously amended its prospectus (known as an S-1 filing) to warn that its users were increasingly using mobile devices and the firm, as yet, makes little money from those users.
"The true facts at the time of the IPO were that Facebook was then experiencing a severe and pronounced reduction in revenue growth due to an increase of users of its Facebook app or website through mobile devices rather than a traditional PC such that the company told the underwriter defendants to materially lower their revenue forecasts for 2012," according to Robbins Geller's suit.
The defendants "selectively disclosed" to "certain preferred investors" the cuts in their own forecasts for Facebook, the suit alleges.
In a statement, Morgan Stanley said: "Morgan Stanley followed the same procedures for the Facebook offering that it follows for all IPOs. These procedures are in compliance with all applicable regulations.
"After Facebook released a revised S-1 filing on May 9 providing additional guidance with respect to business trends, a copy of the amendment was forwarded to all of MS's institutional and retail investors, and the amendment was widely publicized in the press at the time.
"In response to the information about business trends, a significant number of research analysts in the syndicate who were participating in investor education reduced their earnings views to reflect their estimate of the impact of the new information. These revised views were taken into account in the pricing of the IPO."
Robbins Geller is one of the most successful class action law firms in the US and helped Enron investors recover over $7bn from the institutions that helped finance the Texan energy company ahead of its collapse.
Andrew Stoltmann, a Chicago-based securities attorney, said Facebook would be "sucked into the vortex" of this lawsuit but that Morgan Stanley faced the greater risk.
"Federal securities law is very clear – it requires full disclosure. Any information about earnings or revenues would have to be disclosed equally. Ultimately the underwriter, which has done hundreds of these things, is responsible," he said.
booktwo.org:
James Bridle: Opinions are non-contemporary

It's all going to change when Twitter buys one of those new organizations. That's when the lightbulbs will go on for the owners of what remains of the worldwide news industry. Because if you change context, you see the news people as a leg-up for the owner of one online news network in competition with the others. A decent portion of the value of those online systems will be in people. Programmers matter, as do support people, testers, people who can keep data centers humming, and people who have their fingers on the pulse of what's happening in business, government, sports, education, travel, food, movies, theater, music, weather, science (I'm just running through the sections of a newspaper).
At best, they can produce a stream of innovation equal to 1.5 previous Facebooks, and that would be a victory. The model for everyone for scaling a company and still producing new products, and new ideas, is of course Apple. But I'd argue that the Apple of the 1980s was far more innovative than the Apple of the last ten years. They took huge unprecedented steps every couple of years. Today's Apple, and there's nothing wrong with this by the way, takes them every five to seven years. And they aren't as big, they're more evolutionary, more refinements of previous stuff. Re-releases. Like Pixar, they ship a new Toy Story every few years.
I'm sure he'll read this, which is funny in a way. I don't mean anything personal. This is what bubbles do to us. Even if you're not going to hit the jackpot, all that money floating around still makes it hard to focus on things that take time. Rush. It's a game of musical chairs. The music will stop and you won't have a place to sit. It's all the more dangerous today because the employment situation, outside the bubble, is bleak. (Originally I said it's bleak for young people, but it's also true for people my age. No one is offering me any jobs. It's lucky I have savings.)








